HMRC Getting rid of short tax return from 2018, with pilots starting in 2017.

[helen may]

Hi all,
I wonder what you think of this ?.
Just listened to Moneybox radio 4,s consumer programme.

Pretty horrified to hear that the annual short tax return for self employed people in business is being phased out from 2018.
We will no longer be able to keep paper records and file on line once a year, but will have to fill in return 4 or 5 times a yr online with a special APP which HMRC will not approve. (it is up to us to make sure it is safe. )
Personally I think it is a dreadful idea and only heard about it for the first time last week . It seems that it has not been highly advertised.

You can listen on catch up.

[kls]

Re: HMRC .Getting rid of short tax return from 2018, with pilots starting in 2017.

Yes I heard this as well. I have the impression they have just announced this & there seem to be a lot of questions & possibly concerns about it.

[thecurtainmaker]

Re: HMRC .Getting rid of short tax return from 2018, with pilots starting in 2017.

It was announced in the budget last year, but it does seem to have been rushed in. I was talking to my accountant recently and she said that it will take a lot more time until we get used to it, and even then it will take longer than the annual return. On the plus side, it will be easier to keep on top of one's tax affairs.

[enid]

Re: HMRC .Getting rid of short tax return from 2018, with pilots starting in 2017.

I thought that I heard someone on the programme say that if t/over was less than 10k some would be exempt??? Not that helps but it might help some of us. They seemed to think that the cost to the businesses would out way any increase in income to HMRC.!!!!

[Kate T]

Re: HMRC .Getting rid of short tax return from 2018, with pilots starting in 2017.

This fills me with horror! Why should it be up to us to make sure an app is safe that we are forced to use by someone else?? Makes no sense at all. I suppose by having to submit a return 4 or 5 times a year we will soon get used to it but what happens if the app goes belly up and people miss the deadline through no fault of their own? Very worried.

[helen may]

Re: HMRC .Getting rid of short tax return from 2018, with pilots starting in 2017.

Hi,
Yes I know Kate T. But that,s what they said. You know HMRC , not the nicest of characters to deal this....they say they wont help with what APP to buy , we have to decide....so basically we are exposing our private information to a 3rd party.
Anyway have a listen to the programme on catchup. They also spoke about it briefly on the Saturday edition .

[Schuhby]

Re: HMRC .Getting rid of short tax return from 2018, with pilots starting in 2017.

Have a look here

[Liz Gregg]

Re: HMRC .Getting rid of short tax return from 2018, with pilots starting in 2017.

Hi Helen and Kate

I heard the moneybox programme today too, and although I had heard and read about the proposal to change the tax return system, I didn't know it had become a definite plan being introduced that quickly. I guess we all need to check on the HMRC website to find out the details and see where the pilot schemes are being run etc. On Moneybox they talked about accountants letting their clients know, but that doesn't help if you are like me, with a slowly building business who hasn't yet felt the need to hand everything over to an accountant! (A process which will obviously become more expensive if it has to be done 4 times a year instead of once- some people will do very nicely out of it!). As with any change, it will take a while to bed down and for everyone to get used to it, but it isn't helpful that it is being rushed in with so little information. I should think the FSB will have some helpful information and advice, for anyone who is a member. I'll try and find out.
Best wishes
Liz

[suel]

Re: HMRC .Getting rid of short tax return from 2018, with pilots starting in 2017.

Hi Helen and Kate

I heard the moneybox programme today too, and although I had heard and read about the proposal to change the tax return system, I didn't know it had become a definite plan being introduced that quickly. I guess we all need to check on the HMRC website to find out the details and see where the pilot schemes are being run etc. On Moneybox they talked about accountants letting their clients know, but that doesn't help if you are like me, with a slowly building business who hasn't yet felt the need to hand everything over to an accountant! (A process which will obviously become more expensive if it has to be done 4 times a year instead of once- some people will do very nicely out of it!). As with any change, it will take a while to bed down and for everyone to get used to it, but it isn't helpful that it is being rushed in with so little information. I should think the FSB will have some helpful information and advice, for anyone who is a member. I'll try and find out.
Best wishes
Liz

Yes two accountants including my own have told me about this. I don't think the practicalities have been thought through. I give all my income and expenditure once a year to my accountant and he does the rest. Including filing my tax return. This sounds like a lot more work.

[thecurtainmaker]

Re: HMRC .Getting rid of short tax return from 2018, with pilots starting in 2017.

It might be worth having a chat with an accountant to see how they can help you. It need not be that expensive, especially if you do all the prep work and just hand over the figures. In fact, it might save you money in the long run, especially if they are a chartered tax adviser as well. My accountant is one, and she has saved me a lot of money. When we closed my husband's business, she told us about terminal loss relief, which I had never heard of, and we were able to claim back over £3000. But day to day, she advises on all sorts of tax related topics.

[Barcoded]

Re: HMRC .Getting rid of short tax return from 2018, with pilots starting in 2017.

With 4 submissions a year, presumably the tax liability is paid more frequently as well. With interest rates as they are I don't suppose there a lot lost but might hinder cash flow.

[CatherineL]

Re: HMRC .Getting rid of short tax return from 2018, with pilots starting in 2017.

With 4 submissions a year, presumably the tax liability is paid more frequently as well. With interest rates as they are I don't suppose there a lot lost but might hinder cash flow.

The cynical accountant in me says that's 4 opportunities for HMRC to charge penalties for late filing and / or payment, rather than two at present.

[Kate T]

Re: HMRC .Getting rid of short tax return from 2018, with pilots starting in 2017.

What happens if over a whole year you don't exceed the personal allowance, but when broken down into four quarters, one or two of them do? I haven't paid tax for ages, but I can see with fluctuations in the levels of business coming in, I could end up paying tax with this system which I wouldn't otherwise. If HMRC then have to start making refunds, it's hardly saving them money or contributing to their efficiency, is it?

[Christine Martin]

Re: HMRC .Getting rid of short tax return from 2018, with pilots starting in 2017.

I personally think that this is going to be a bit of a nightmare, both for the accountants and for us.
Although submitting quarterly accounts does make us a bit more organised with our tax affairs, I would expect the bill to my accountant to rise significantly.
I would hope that although quarterly accounts are submitted the final bill will be on the 5th submission so only one bill a year?
I have raised this subject with my accountant and he has said that he will come back to me when they have more information from HMRC.
This apparantly does not come into effect until 2018.

Kind Regards
Christine

[Louise]

Re: HMRC Getting rid of short tax return from 2018, with pilots starting in 2017.

Quick overview from Simply Business on this topic